FAQ / FYI

so, Ive decided to take at a stab at the "frequently asked questions" posted on the Brewer's Ledge website. In general I agree with all of their answers and found them to be both accurate and fair. In that same breath I also believe their answer to be generic. Mine on the other hand are more for the private purchaser and have the benefit of not being official and thereby more "colorful". again these are my opinions and only mine.

HOW HARD IS CLIMBING ON THE TREADWALL?
The obvious answer is your path is as hard as the one you choose. Need it easier or harder, then set the route differently. It should be noted that should you choose the Treadwall KORE model then at least the wall is never easy. I have heard plenty of chatting about how easy the wall is. Not so when you can never put it to a slab setting! At the same time I have set 5.8/5.9 warm up routes with jugs which are considerably harder when placed to 35 degrees overhanging.

HOW FAST CAN I CLIMB ON THE TREADWALL?
This is well answered by Brewer’s ledge, but I will add my opinion. You can climb as fast as you want, but changing your tempo is hard mid workout. Sometimes, when you are climbing harder routes you wish you could dead point longer moves. Unfortunately the set rate of the wall forces you at times to do a lock-off until the wall rotates and reveals the next hold. Arguably this could be considered a good thing as it forces you to train lock-offs…albeit unintentionally. You can avoid this issue through route setting. But generally the walls tempo/speed, is set to you and the function of the auto-stop makes the wall better than powered models which would spit you off just as a traditional treadmill. The adjustment of the speed is in a fine range, you will kinda tweak it in at the beginning of each work out. But I tend to make minor adjustments depending on the climb I’m working at that moment….moving on.

HOW DOES THE TREADWALL KEEP PACE WITH THE CLIMBER?
As Brewer’s ledge mentions the auto-stop is great. It is helpful to take a couple seconds to shake out and chalk up. If you are climbing at a faster rate (i.e. speed climbing) the auto-stop can be kinda jerky especially is you don’t keep a good pace in the middle of the climbing height. You may consider turn off the auto-stop in these circumstances. But at a more reasonable pace it’s neither jerky nor distracting. It does take a little getting used to though; if you shift your weight off the stop trigger (the last panel) you can get a surprise exit from the wall. It took my about a week to build a habit that avoids this. Another funny surprise I found to be when falling and jumping off. I generally have an unconscious sense of how high I am by how far I’ve climbed. Makes sense right? But when you blow a move or find your endurance lacking the ground is surprisingly close. The first time I hit the ground much sooner than I expected it I laugh loudly for my instinct had made me believe I had been far further from the pads.

HOW DOES THE TREADWALL WORK?
Sooo…gravity! I don’t think I can add much to the Brewer’s ledge answer. To go beyond would just be helping the Chinese to set-up a factory and put our boys out of business.

CAN TWO PEOPLE CLIMB AT ONCE?
I agree with the Brewer’s ledge answer… but, not really. I think this “question” is only here for the fitness gyms. I doubt the average private purchase climber would ever try to have two climbers use the wall at once. It would be a crowding issue. It would make it harder to actually train. But I have trained with a partner in a session. Taking turns as you might in a gym and this works well.

HOW LONG SHOULD I CLIMB FOR?
This is as they have said all dependent upon your training goals. I am still in the process of developing my own. I hope in the future to publish what has worked for me…stay tuned? I guess…

WILL THE HOLD PATTERN GET REPETITIOUS?
Again I agree with the published answer. I wish, in addition, to address a similar issue. I have found that one of the few true difficulties of using the treadwall is sequencing and onsighting. This is because unlike with conventional climbing you can look up at the sequence and plan accordingly. Therefore a more technical sequence is easy to blow. Keep in mind you’re the one setting the route so… how much can you really complain? In this vein the repetition of doing the route will help you to focus more on what I call programming a difficult sequence. See, in red pointing a route at your peak level what often makes the difference in failure or sending is truly knowing the route. The treadwall will unintentionally force you to develop this skill. Bear in mind all training programs are inherent with pros and cons!

DO I NEED SPECIAL SHOES TO CLIMB THE TREADWALL?
Yes! If youre gonna train, then train by recreating the conditions as close to normal as possible. At the same time, the treadwall itself does not care which type of shoes, if even at all, you choose to wear.


CAN ANYBODY USE THE TREADWALL?
Nope… there are many who cannot or might find it very difficult to use the treadwall include; individuals with IQ less than 35, Quadriplegics, multiple amputees, and the poor. I know, “the poor?” you ask. Lets be honest kids it aint cheap and there are very few gyms with a treadwall which have a membership program for those of lower socio-economic status. Apply that to the Olympics, are we really seeing the best in every sport, or just the best of the ones who are rich enough to train all their lives and compete. (soap box alert!)

CAN YOU BE TOO OLD TO CLIMB?
Yes! Dumb question… obvious answer…


DOES EVERYONE LIKE IT?
NO! again… dumb question … with an obvious answer. But I have to point out that most of the people I have run into who nay say the treadwall fall into one of three categories: 1) not a serious climber/has no training regime. 2) never actually been in the same room with the treadwall. 3) serious climber & used treadwall.. but their use is limited to the M6 fitness gym model with routes either set by an amateur or no actual routes at all. Given this their opinion has little weight in my book!

I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT. WILL IT TAKE ME LONG TO LEARN?
Really?... my initial response is… boo hoo, if youre asking if climbing is too much for you to learn, then; YES! It is too hard for you, go play Badminton little Maid Marian. …I guess this could be a legitimate question. No its pretty user friendly and intuitive. The boys did a good job designing and refining the treadwall over the years.

WHAT KIND OF BODIES DOES FITNESS CLIMBING BUILD?
I think this too is a fitness gym question. The archetypal climber physique is the V-shape torso with thin legs. That said who hasn’t seen climbers come in all shapes and sizes?

WHO USES TRADWALLS?
Um.. I do

DO SERIOUS CLIMBERS LIKE THE TREADWALL?
Umm…. I do. Oh, im not good enough for you?! Well my main climbing partner is sponsored and on the US climbing team (she gets embarrassed when I point that out…its funny). But, she uses the treadwall with me and likes it… also, there is a whole group of climber in the Red River Gorge area who swear by it... Crediting the treadwall with giving them the endurance and strength to do their harder tics.

how the other side lives!

so i am look around, not as much lately, on the net i scope out different treads regarding the tread wall. and i see a lot of badmouthing out there. usually its someone sounding off who has never used a treadwall. ...or if they have and it was for thirty seconds. i kinda bummed me out when i was trying to make my decision because facts are what make a good argument not conjecture. but the other day i came across this thread and decided to share it ....with my own color commentary of course.

So the set up is; i found the tread and on guy like the idea and another said boo! here is a link to the actual thread : http://www.climbeasterncanada.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=502

i have made a little bit of changes to the responders text, i put in "point references" for where i plan to make retorts.... enjoy?

excited newbie wrote:
Ill take your word for it mitch, but why is it bad for training? It seems to force you to use fluid motions instead of being a choppy climber. I dont know a thing about them but they seem ok.

mitchleblanc wrote:
Thanks for trusting me Now let me try to convince you! First of all, what "dcentral" meant by "there's no angle change" is that once you hop on the wall, it's a constant angle, until you hop off. The reason he says this as a negative is because when you build a bouldering wall, you want variety! (POINT 1) He also noted that you can't traverse, down climb, etc.. (POINT 2) A treadmill (as for running) is *insanely* repetitive. And that, frankly, is all the downside you need! The main obstacle to working out (as anyone who trains will attest to) is boredom, and motivation. (POINT 3) I had a gym at my house that was pretty sizable, and even that got insanely boring. You just lose motivation, and stop doing it. (POINT 4) Plus, $2000 is a load of money. You could build an awesome home gym (where you could set proper routes, and actually have fun climbing) for that much, including holds, chin up bar, etc. Man, pay me to build you a gym! (POINT 5) Plus, if you are learning "fluid" climbing on a treadmill.. What good does it do you? Real rock doesn't move any more than a wall. You will learn to boulder smoothly on your own, as you improve. If the treadmill isn't moving continuously (which would be ridiculous) than how is it actually any different? Can't you still stop and be choppy? (POINT 6) Lastly: They had one at the Pepsi Max booth in Hyde Park the other day.. and it was called The Wall of Non-Terror, I kid you not. If that's not reason enough to convince you not to buy one, I don't know what is! (POINT 7)


Alejandro's retort:
so i realize that my blog is very one sided so i want to put up another view ....fairs fair. although i disagree with this guy (mitchleblanc) i want to say that he makes the strongest most well thought out negative review of the treadwall i have yet to see. but still he admits earlier in the tread that he has seen one but not climbed on it. although he agrees they have an obvious draw and appeal. he seems to be only against getting one at home for training. soooo.....

Point 1: umm, variety? when you build a bouldering wall.... ITS NEVER CHANGES ANGLE! unless you design it to "tilt". this point was definitely arguable... especially with the angle changing of the kore. the kore you can set a boulder problem... and after you send you can make it hard be increasing the angle. now i think he (mitchleblanc) is also pointing out that the kore doesnt change angle during you climb like the "climb station" machine. personally, i like that! the motorized thing just seems like more to go wrong, and... it seems to remove the climbing even more from actual reality. but that personal taste i guess.

Point 2: F&*$ traversing and down climbing, the only reason people do that is because its easier to keep climbing in a gym with these methods. its a training exercise for building power endurance. if you could keep climbing vertically would you really ever "train" to traverse.

Point 3: Yeah i agree with your point that treadmills are boring.... but how many treadmills are there in america? do you see a bunch of gyms phasing them out?

Point 4: of course repetition is boring. thats why we set training goals for accomplishing our outdoor goals! hes just stating the obvious...

Point 5: CORRECT SIR! well played. they are expensive... and that one was only $2,grand used. buy it fool! youll never find it that cheap again! but honestly if i wasnt single with barely any bills i wouldnt be buying one either. so this points to you.

Point 6: im not sure what is really being argued here. is the machine causing you to be fluid? ...no. is the machine causing you to be choppy? ...honestly im not sure havent climbed one yet. but in videos i have seen i havent seen any issue. check out youtube or brewerslegde.com to seem some for yourself. but i think the author is agreeing with me so...non-issue?

Point 7: oh...sir! go out strong! make your last point echo with truth... dont sneak in a jab that really doesnt count for anything. you were at PEPSI MAX.... and something had a cheesy name? really? of course they yucked it up for the drooling masses. but treadwall didnt name it that. the vendor did. so it says nothing about the product. more importantly though if they renamed it the "flying shit factory of doom" and it was still an awesome product that improved my climbing and was fun....sorry guy id still use it. but if you wanna choose your friends based on they're name go ahead.

later mitchleblanc boasted in the same thread about another climbing machine i had never heard of (how can this be?!!)... the BOULDERTRON? made by cragmaker. but when i tried to track this thing down i found only deleted weblinks. hmm? back the wrong horse?

in the end i think mitchleblanc has a right to his opinion and he did a better job than most other treadwall critics.

SF setup

so when back when i was originally trying to gather info on the treadwall to decide if i want to waste....i mean invest the money in a treadwall i ran into this guy who wrote me a great review of the treadwall KORE. here is a link to that. and a picture he "recently" posted of his setup. if you are considering getting your own wall i suggest you read what he had to say!

http://treadwallproject.blogspot.com/2010/05/decision-process.html

cover your back, shirt review

i do kinda a have a thing for pimping things i like. and generally when i get into something i jump in with both feet and a snorkel. so when i noticed the clothing link on the brewer's ledge website i had to take a look.




the next on is specifically for the treadwall kore. i thought this one was better but, still not quite there.




not that i have an innate desire to outdo others.... but i did make my own design for a shirt, too bad it would be a little expensive to show off my fashion sense. ie, if brewers ledge wants to print them id get one. check it out:

View my custom t-shirt design

View my custom t-shirt design

i hope you noticed that the dominant design was on the back. there is a button on the top right corner of the page to look at the back, and i had a little fun with a treadwall Kore logo. drop a comment let me know if you like the shirt. or any other Kore owners wanna split cost id get one! no? ...um kay

so, im not sure i would get any of the shirts. the first one is a little basic and old school in not a good way. plus the front says "climb forever" in a terrible font. the second one is better but i guess all the zoo animals is lost on me. if anyone gets the joke go ahead and spell it out for the slow kid in the helmet. oh, and it also has an M4 in the picture...boo! just boo! the third on is kinda cool, but i dont have love for the colors. ...oh and i would do the whole everest club thing ...but that shirt is god awful.

sorry for the bad review guys, but keep in mind your not in the clothing business. ...and my final thought, when you have a business and want to advertise always stick with one logo and carry that through. it's why every one knows pepsi and coke!

Treadwall Promotional Video

back when i was trying to decide whether or not i was gonna invest in the treadwall i was begging for something like this video to help me make my decision. this video came along sometime after i decided but before i started the blog. i have been trying to get this video on my blog.... try as i may i couldnt figure out how to do so.. but there is a link to where you can watch it. the video checks in at 14 min and change. there is cheesy guitar music through the entire video and an female commentator with the quintessential optimistic voice. go check it out!

http://www.brewersledge.com/support/training/training-video


watching this video, my recurrent thought is ....im bored!!! throughout the film i am reminded of basic training/introduction films you are forced to watch when first starting a new job at some mega corporate company (B&N, Domino's...take your pic). it does a good job of showing all the general functions of the wall which was nice. but i am definitely not inspired to climb on the treadwall. there is a very antiseptic quality to the video. so i guess the question is, if something doesnt speak to you...may be you arent the audience. given that, i realize, "no i'm definitely not the target audience" ...and you probably arent either. these guys are mostly selling these things to fitness gyms...ie corporate turds! And those guys dont know a thing about climbing. it also likely they dont care. so you gotta sell to what they do hear... fitness, fun, member interest. overall, it felt like a visual root canal... in fact i think id prefer an actual root canal, with the gas! and the tugging! sorry boys.

there are times when the commentator is talking about technique and the climber is demonstrating HORRIBLE form. in the past when i was instructing, one of the things i always stressed was that you never "saddle" your foot on a hold. this propagates poor technique, and retards future develop of quality foot work. climbers need to develop good muscle control in their toes... when you use the arch of the foot to step on a hold it has neither good feel of the rock nor control. you cant pull into a foothold in this position. maybe you dont know what i mean so check out the pics...i used "circles" to emphasize my point... smart right?!




the red circles are the bad "saddling" that i was talking about. the green circles show the climber using their toes like good little boys and girls should!

in another segment of the video they talk about "Ground based Climbing" ...i dont understand this at ALL! i think thats all ill say on that subject, cause if you dont understand it... you dont have an opinion.

the video talks about other incentive programs... i dont know that this would matter to any home user. i doubt i will really ever track my mileage... maybe to beat the overall record? yeah that i would consider. but otherwise boo.

there is also an over use of back stepping in the video. back stepping for some reason seems to be one of those things people love to show off. i guess it looks characteristically like climbing. but like everything it has its place. and honestly i dont back step that much. it's like flagging... if your doing it every move, then your over doing it. so please stop with the pointless overdone off-balance ridiculous looking back stepping!


if i had the ability to change this in this video i would ditch the commentator with the super edited uncandid script. it feels phony to me, and that is never a good sale point ....for me, it generally has an opposite effect. i would also have a section with just stark sound. let people hear the functioning of the machine. i think sound can convey a lot. even though with most people its completely subliminal. they will hear the machine isnt clunky or loose sounding... ie "good design". i would dile down the soundtrack also through out the video. yeah its peppy and plays to a wide range of people, being neither overly recognizable or exclusive. but, after a while that same guitar hook gets abrasively repetitive and annoying.

the video in the end is worth watching. i feel bad saying so much negatively about it. im sure a lot of time and effort went into the production. but its not especially inspiring like some of the BigUP or Sender films.... of course it doesnt have to be. i doubt the goal of the film was more than a sales tool for sending out to fitness gyms. it gives you a lot of visuals of the treadwall and if pictures say a thousand words...video says infinitely more! and lacking anything better ive probably watch all 14 minutes at least fourteen times. so thanks guys i did enjoy it!!

Decision Process

i obsess decisions, especially ones that account for my cash in the thousands. so, i need to find more info, outside of the marketing campaign. see i have never seen one in person. given that, a while back i hit the discussion boards looking for answers. and although there are a lot of people out there with opinions most of them have no basis in ....well anything really. i spent some time asking folks on the internet what they think...(wait hold it, i'll show you what i posted on a tread)

i found a tread talking about treadwalls so i jumped in to try and get some details. i posted:

"Hey Thanks for the treadwall post! i am also really into the idea of getting one. I am curious, are they very loud? What are the best routesetting techniques? Would the wall do well if i build a shed in my back yard, ps i live in washington? Are there any routine maintenance problems for the KORE? Do they come pre-assembled? i cant imagine it does ...but? please post any cool kore pics! i am curious to see actual customers digging it? cause it is damn pricey!? "

i waited, excited to talk to some folk and my first response was....

"I bet some1 could make one of those out of a old gear bike, £200 worth of wood/steel and one long arse chain."- Random guy

AWESOME! thank you. that's really helpful ....douche bag. why do people respond to serious questions on the internet with garbage. please! please! ...please never respond to me again. your dumb and dont have a treadwall, so you dont need to be apart of the conversation. you are decidedly a.....

oddly enough though, sometime later an engineer friend of mind tried to convince me to try and build my own. he figured it would cost $3000 grand tops. i decided to pass. my rational being, if i spend that money and built a piece of shit, then my cost just nearly doubles. brewer's ledge have done 20 YEARS!!! of R&D... (research and development) i think ill give them a shot ...even if i am a genius. Luckily my next response was more than i could have hoped for!

as follows is his very nice response!!!!!! (that's why it's in "quotes")

"Okay, I am happy to attempt to answer your questions and offer some testimony on the Treadwall Kore. It is probably the best home training tool that a climber can purchase, particularly for improving endurance, technique, and power endurance. Having owned one for a while now, I highly recommend them, with a couple of caveats. To begin with, I live in a small town with an active climbing population of one. Thus, I had spent years driving an hour each way to one of a couple of gyms in the region just to pull on plastic once per week. My 12x8 woody and hangboards were okay but quickly got boring and injuriously monotonous. I needed a better way to really train for climbing at home but could not come up with a satisfactory solution short of dropping some serious coin to build a 30’ tall metal building in my backyard to house my own route wall. That is when the Kore caught my eye. Admittedly, I was skeptical of rotating walls, having been unimpressed by the motorized versions of times past. Computerized controls, laser sensors, motors- the constant speed made for some unnatural movement and it would only be a matter of time before some obsolete part malfunctioned, leaving me with a non-functioning hunk of metal and plastic to jimmy rig or dispose of. However, the Treadwall boasted a passive drive with hydraulic braking and minimal electrical componentry. The simplicity piqued my interest. So, after a bit of corresponding with the manufacturer regarding purchasing one of their devices I determined, with lots of deliberation, that I was willing to make the investment and took a leap of faith by putting down a deposit on a Kore. (This is the model marketed to home users, and is the one that anyone serious about training should get due to its steeper angle and lower cost relative to the commercial model). My ceiling height was sufficient to warrant the adjustable angle frame, which gives me about 12.5 degrees of angle variation with a ~10 foot ceiling (35-22.5 degrees). If you have less vertical space to work with perhaps save the money and get a fixed angle. Anyway, I had little beta to go on other than knowing that they were a real company with a seemingly sound product, having read the R&I review and seen a commercial model in a gym. Sure enough, it was not too long before we were scheduling a delivery. When the transfer truck showed up at my curb (in the rain of course) with a pallet of parts weighing nearly half a ton, I was a bit overwhelmed. I had to single handedly unpack everything, load it into my pickup, and drive it to its final destination, my garage, as the contracted driver stood by with a shrug. It then took about 15 hours or so to get everything assembled. I only needed assistance one time, to raise the frame. Otherwise, nothing proved too much for two hands and a bit of leverage. The instructions from the factory were very detailed and easy to follow. I did have to run to the hardware store for a couple of washers that had been left out, but this only set me back $1 and a few minutes. Once fully assembled I knew that I had bought a well designed and manufactured apparatus. The frame is very solid, with zero flex or wobble. The chains, axles, and cogs are probably over engineered and require little to no maintenance or greasing. The hydraulic braking system is consistent and natural, with a no hands auto-stop to let you shake out and chalk up. Plus, the rotation is smooth and, yes, quiet. For some strange reason, the auto-stop switch went bad within the first week, but Treadwall quickly sent me a replacement and I was back in business with little delay and no further issues. I now have over six months of consistent use and enjoyment of my Kore with zero problems; there are so few parts that little can go wrong. One rotation equates to approximately 20 feet of vertical climbing. I set multiple taped routes of varying difficulties, each being one rotation long, and link them in accordance with my training schedule (e.g. pyramids, 4x4’s, etc.) This machine is best suited for endurance related training. Dynamic moves and maximum strength training are still best executed on stationary walls and campus/hang boards, as there is a small bit of downward rotation of each hold as you weight it and there is a bit or “waiting” for your weight to turn the wall in order to make long reaches, etc. I recommend getting lots of holds and a variety of colored route tape and packing the wall with routes. Just keep in mind that there are size limitations for the holds in both height and depth. While the manufacturer does offer a weather proofing option for outdoor use, my recommendation is to keep this expensive and well engineered machine completely out of the elements. First of all, what good is a training device if you can only use it on nice days? That is when you should be on the rock! Second, metal does rust and wood does rot. Leave a $5,000 bike outside for a year and see what happens. While a carport-type roof with no walls could work, an uninsulated shed to shield the wind and blowing precipitation would be my personal minimum. A garage, basement, or spare room are your best options. Furthermore, while disassembly is definitely possible, I would not buy a Treadwall with the expectation of moving it around a lot. In the case of frequent relocations a traditional woody is much cheaper to just strip of its holds and abandon. The Treadwall is not really what I would consider to be 100% kid safe, depending upon age and level of supervision. While I do not believe the design to be unsafe, small fingers could be eaten in a hurry if inserted in the wrong place at the wrong time. Perhaps I will post a picture of my Kore at a later time. Treadwall’s website is pretty good and has pics and videos posted. If anything, the design is more solid and reliable than I had envisioned. The staff is also very friendly and responsive. Gmggg is being a bit tongue in cheek, as he was my primary contact at Treadwall and was indeed a “friendly guy”. Treadwall gets a full five stars from me!"